Rape fears lead women soldiers to suicide, death »
Posted by: pagey 1 year, 5 months ago124 Comments Report this Story
U.S. female soldiers in Iraq were assaulted or raped by male soldiers in the women's latrines, and an alarming number committed suicide, Col. Janis Karpinski reportedly testified before an international human rights commission of inquiry last month.
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contrast1 year, 5 months ago
This is clearly a problem in the military but Neo remember there are hundreds of thousands of soldiers. 83 sexual assaults as a spike for a six month period is bad but still low in the grand scheme-in perspective we have hundreds of thousands of soldiers acting accordingly...but please dont think about that. How many sexual assaults happen in canada in six month period? Is it shameful?
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CaptainShev1 year, 5 months ago
Hundreds of thousands of soldiers - of which how many are women? When you get a macho culture like the military, attitudes towards women are never going to be the most progressive. However, what is really shameful is the way that women are treated *after* rape - as liars, as hysterics etc. Reporting a crime like this is difficult, more so when the person you're supposed to be reporting to is part of the culture that allowed it to happen in the first place. There will be repercussions for your own career, but very likely none for the perpetrator. No anonymity for the victims either in such a closed environment - not to mention having to deal with all the brave souls who shout "LIAR! Prove it!"
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SwampWitch1 year, 5 months ago
What is shameful is the fact that sexual assaults happen period, regardless of who, regardless of where. What is even more shameful is people who try to find a way to make them acceptable by saying oh, but this is just such a small percentage...
Those "hundreds of thousands of soldiers" should have some decent leaders, who in turn should have some decent leadership. You fail to mention the fact that attempts are made to cover it up and make it more palatable, which in my book says a lot, both for you and the top brass who will allow this to happen "on their watch," to coin a good old Ronnie Reagan phrase.
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Ebonvoice1 year, 5 months ago
What is incredibly shameful is the military's stance that one's relative morality is linked directly to their sexual orientation. Heterosexuals are not morally superior to homosexuals, but our Armed Forces continue to preach this as gospel through their actions, while assaults such as these continue.
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bobo-in-texas1 year, 5 months ago
I find both amusing and shameful that Col. (formerly General) Karpinski is testifing about any sort of rights abuses. For those who don't remember, she was the commander of the prison at Abu Gareb when the infamous abuses occured.
I think that it's difficult to give anything in this article full credibility when it features her.
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sinophil491 year, 5 months ago
For those who don't remember, Gen. Karpinski was in charge of 15 prisons in Iraq. The CIA and Army intelligence came into Abu Ghraib and took over the interrogations in one wing of Abu Ghraib.
There were NO atrocities reported in the other 14 prisons where she retained command of operations and interrogations. As a matter of fact, there were no tortures even in the other wings of Abu Ghraib. I am not that naive to say that every guard elsewhere was totally innocent; but at least nothing happened that was significant enough to arouse the prisoners nor the press.
She is an outstanding commander and was simply the designated scapegoat. This seems the favorite modus operandi of the Bush administration whenever scandal threatens to take down anyone higher in the chain of command, military or civilian.
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Daylight1 year, 5 months ago
BoBo in Texas
I think that it's difficult to give anything in this article full credibility when it features her.
Oxymorons like you need only justification for rape and murder, when a Muslim does anything wrong you don't even need any proof, just go crazy like the wild dogs and attacks Islam. You are despicable creatures.
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Sandokan1 year, 5 months ago
This one of the reasons females should not be assigned to combat zones. During the Vietnam era and as long as the WACs were active, this didn't happen!!! Combat brings out the best and worst in every man, unfortunately "rape" is one of them.
That being said, it is still totally unacceptable for this to be happening to our women soldiers, who are there fighting for the same reasons as their male counterparts. The leadership, and if flows all the way up to the White House, is to blame. The President should make an announcement about the incidents on nationwide TV to bring attention to it, then make an example of the command, by relieving and retiring all those in the chain-of-command... All. General Sanchez needs to be put into prison for his attempt to cover it up. General Wojdakowski also needs to be in prison. The most important ramification to this issue is how this can be and is being used by the radicals fueling the uprising against the US.
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cm_samuels1 year, 4 months ago
SANDOKAN says, "This one of the reasons females should not be assigned to combat zones."
Sorry, but that is utter nonsense.
In the first instance, a female soldier dropping dead because they fear to go to a latrine is horse pucky. 1 sergeant that hears 1 time that a rapeist may be on the loose, puts up a /armed/ standing watch.
Female physiology & psychology is favorable for several combat operational specialties, never mind that particular ladies may pack the gear to in be a specialty where their gender is of no benefit or may be a potential hindrance.
The Armed Forces requires Disciplined Will matched to the physical qualification, to enter combat. Gender on its face, is irrelevant.
If one is able to pack the gear and willing to shoot to kill, they ought to be allowed in without restriction.
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Sandokan1 year, 5 months ago
Obviously, they will be saying, this is a sample of how the West treats women. In addition, they will point out that rape is a sentence of death to the perpetuator of the crime. I believe that the soldiers responsible should be put in front of a firing squad, since the crimes committed are being done during war.
Finally, swift and extreme justice carried out will definitely serve as a deterent to other male soldiers feeling the itch. Their own comrades are targets of opportunity, imagine when the opportunity presents itself on patrol with Iraqi women? How would that make Abu Grahib look like as far as a shameful part of US Military history? Correct,the Abu Grahib incident would pale besides a raping spree on the Iraqi populace of women. How lucky that the rapes are only targeting our own daughters and soldiers - American women!!!
We need to fight terrorists everywhere, let's start in the US military forces over there, or we will be fighting them here.
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Sandokan1 year, 5 months ago
George Bush, Rove, Cheney and Rumsfeld have constantly sold that picture to the American public, so they knew all the time... hmmmmmm Chalk another one up their vision.
As Harry Belefonte says, we all need to rise up - stop talking about how bad we feel and do something about it! Imagine if it was your own daughter? Now you catch the drift. IMHO I would probably end up in prison, if justice was not carried out either with putting the Generals in prison, the perpatrators in jail or executed, for I would be for "an eye for and eye"!!!
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donald511 year, 5 months ago
...if the Uniform Code of Military Justice had more civilian involvement than the chain of command that choses its own judge and jury, then these rapes would be prosecuted better and be reduced. Taking the Abu Ghraib offenders back to Texas to try them and the judge telling them their previous chain of cammand would not be available insured the soldiers would be scapegoats as Dubya wanted. The UCMJ is surely a Republican process.
Then there are all the fratricide cases where no one is convicted too! Atkinson wrote in his book, CRUSADE, on the '91 Iraq War that most coalition soldiers died as a result of our own failed actions. 2 UH-60 shutdown over northern Iraq or the bombing of Canadian soldiers in a restricted zone where our Air Force was not suposed to be.
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baud581 year, 5 months ago
I would have to have the proof in front of me not just some reporter saying it. There has been to much bull being spread by our so called media that has been pr oven wrong. I have a son that was over there twice all ready I would believe him before I would believe our lying media.
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Ebonvoice1 year, 5 months ago
Interesting. Do you have a specific instance where "the media" has knowingly lied to the public about any particular story? What exactly was the lie? Was the lie made to benefit a conservative or liberal agenda? And was the lie disproven by other media sources, including eyewitness accounts, blogs, publicly distributed audio or video, etc.?
Some stories are just too disturbing to be believed outright. It's easy to shoot the messenger when this occurs, but one can't blame the messenger for the message.
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ONEMEMPHISDUDE1 year, 5 months ago
First, I consider the source. The Vermont News. Nice, liberal, alternative paper. No. 2. General Karpinsky, the fired comander of Abu Gareb. Think she may have an ax to grind with The Adminstration? No. 3. 83 Women reported being raped. The key here is...REPORTED. How many charges have proven true?
Sure. Take a rape charge seriously, but make Damn sure it's true. Rape is one of the most horrible, offensive, crimes to happen to women. It's also one of the most horrible charges against a man; tragically so, if it's untrue. Unfortunately, I've seen MANY false charges of rape. Let's not be to quick to believe another "Bush hater" with a leftist agenda.
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CaptainShev1 year, 5 months ago
Only about 3% of rape accusations are brought about falsely. Conversely, only 5.6% of reported rapes end in conviction. That's a hell of a lot of rapists walking free - and I'm willing to bet that the number of convictions is a lot lower in the military.
And yes, the key word *is* REPORTED - though not in the way that you mean. How many women don't report rape, because it's a commanding officer, because they've been threatened, because they know that nothing will happen anyway?
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earthlingerer1 year, 5 months ago
Eh, this isn't so surprising when you learn that about 12% of new recruits last year have either felony convictions, or serious misdemeanors like aggravated assault and various others, like vehicular homicide.
Good recruit choices, besides the ones with serious psychological disorders.
So, it's not just a bunch of college kids.
And when you realize this, it all goes against what we thought the military was being made into under Bush I and Clinton.
Another reason why we keep losing Hearts and Minds.
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CaptainShev1 year, 5 months ago
It's attitudes like yours that ensure rape gets swept under the carpet in this way. Rape is notoriously difficult to 'prove,' particularly when your chain of command is part of the culture that allows rape to flourish, as well as the sole place to report these crimes. Even in a liberal civilian population (for the purposes of this example, the UK), only 5.6% of reported rapes end in a conviction. This doesn't mean that the women are lying, it's that we can't prove that the men are. The burden of proof lies on the woman, whereas it should lie with the man. And let's not forget that this is only the reported number - how many more ar ethere where the woman just cannot report it - perhaps because her officer is the rapist? Who will provide justice?
I can guarantee you this: that these women aren't killing themselves over lies.
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ONEMEMPHISDUDE1 year, 5 months ago
>>>>The burden of proof lies on the woman, whereas it should lie with the man."
I can't believe you actually wrote this! In the case of a man charged with Rape, you believe that the accused must carry the burden of proof of innocence? Did I understand you correctly?
G_d help the American Judicial system if our citizens have no more knowledge of our basic liberties than the above example.
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cm_samuels1 year, 4 months ago
CAPTAINSHEV says, "that ensure rape gets swept under the carpet in this way. Rape is notoriously difficult to prove, particularly when your chain of command is part of the culture that allows rape to flourish, as well as the sole"
Not a chance in Hell CaptainShev. Soldiers, Marines, Sailors & Airmen look out for each other. Assault and the Forcible Entry of rape are self evident.
If some low life son-of-a-bitch raped a squadie of mine in a combat situation, I'd mount up my squad, track him down and shoot him.
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cm_samuels1 year, 4 months ago
SANDOKAN says, "it's happening all right. The women soldiers just returning to Germany from the MP Company (516th) talked about it."
You may bet your bottom dollar that I'll be looking for information on it. It doesn't fit.
The stories that female soldiers were not killed during rape, and were somehow prevented from bringing an armed squadmate to protect them for latrine calls, such that they eventually died of dehydration is out of whack.
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contrast1 year, 5 months ago
What IS shameful is the fact that male soldiers have to labor under this stigma and people like Neo paint with a broad brush. Sexual assaults occur in our streets, in public restrooms, in private residences, at parks, playgrounds, beaches, parties, clubs, parking lots, high schools, colleges, frat houses, movie theaters, airplanes, alleys, restaurants, etc. Some how nobody seems think that all male civilians are scum when there are far more rapes and assualts in civilian life than in the armed servicee. But somehow some way some people will think the military are a bunch of horny thugs with no morals...you wtach this thread.
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donald511 year, 5 months ago
Contract, only you have called them horny thugs. Also the percentage is so low of women in a combat zone that your comparison to real life is irrelevant... and heaven forbid a stigma to a male soldier. I see your duplicity, you hypocrite!
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Aidenag1 year, 5 months ago
@Contrast
Your forgetting the fact that women are a small minority in the Military... It makes the 83 a much larger percentage than it would in civilian life, when its almost a 50/50 split between the sexes..
And lastly, even in the civilian world, many MANY rapes and sexual assualts or harrasment goes unreported. IN the military, it has been shown to be even higher of a rate of victims not reporting.. Why? cause it ENDS your career pretty much instantly..
And no, im not trying to bash the Military... I was raised on an Army base(redstone arsenal), and love our troops.. But that doesnt mean i will defend them when they do wrong...
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blainegarrett1 year, 5 months ago
I probably missed something neo said so i am not sure who is calling who "scum". However, keep in mind that this is our military we are talking about. There should be 0 rapes, especially among your fellow troops. I mean these are the people you are fighting side by side with. I hope any cases of rape that are found to be factual seen strict punishments. Our sons, daughters, brothers, sisters are over their fighting the enemy and should not be worrying if one of their fellow troops is going to rape them when they go to the latrine. Bias or not, if this sort of thing is happening, I don't care the political affiliation of the messenger.
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Daylight1 year, 5 months ago
contrast
You can't talk about moral when women dress to seduce and tempt men, eve tempted Adam that is the truth and that is natural, your priest are gays, why? because their life is not natural, women are being raped because they are in wrong carriers, they need protection and kindness they are supposed to choose different carriers that will not put them into harms way.
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Sandokan1 year, 5 months ago
Combat and high stress factors make a soldier horny. In Vietnam there was plenty of ******s around, Iraq is a different story - Islam. So that leaves our own "round eyes" to be used for the "deposits"!!! Remove them, then that problem will go away, leaving only the Iraqi females to bear the brunt of the assault ...so to speak.
Besides, in Civilian scenarios, the women aren't fellow soldiers fighting along side of the males, they are just solo individuals often with nothing in common with the perpetrators.
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bill-smith1 year, 5 months ago
I believe that it is safe to say that one rape of a member of our military by another member of our military is one too many. The fact that rapes and sexual assualts happen elsewhere in our county and our world is a poor excuss for dismissing it in our armed services.
We owe each member of our military the greatest protection and safety that is possible, whether it be from our enemies or ourselves. It is the duty of the military and the government to do all that is humanly possible to investigate and rectify this situation. We owe that much to our military personnel.
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CUTEBABY1 year, 5 months ago
I don't think that even though these rapes are going on. Males who rape women, they should think what if this happened with theirs sisters or wives even their mothers. Men should control themselves from doing this. These kind of things always bring shame to their own name and disgrace to their families.
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tehranchik1 year, 5 months ago
Tenric---so what does your comment have to say about some of the men in our military?
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Sandokan1 year, 5 months ago
Cutebaby you are stating the acceptable behavior of our society. In combat, stress level changes normal behavior to the point of being non recognizable by the noncombat individuals. Obviously, they shouldn't be doing it, but it is happening. IMHO in order to protect the females, they need to be taken out of that LIC scenario. You can make all the regulations you want, but as long the primal drive of the male is working overtime with hormones blasting away... the only way to control it is either through the fear factor - possibility of excecution, or by removing the temptation - female soldiers, and offering other avenues of venting their needs - R&R to areas with cheap female companionship. (Thailand, Hungary or Czcheslovakia.
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evelyna1 year, 5 months ago
I guess a lot of them feared retailation like a lot of the male soldiers fear reporting stress on the battlefield.
Once again this proves the military has lowered their standards both in recruiting and allowing people to stay on who have broken the law.
I can see the lawsuits right now. Women expect to be rapped and assaulted by their captors. But never by their comrades.
The military should not recruit if they cannot protect their women on the workforce.
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mom4rtroops1 year, 5 months ago
just to let you know rape is common everywhere noadays. Statistics say 1 in 6 women will be sexually assulted in their lifetime. That is shameful.
I am a veteran and I support the troops. I know not all of them are like that and you find people without morals everwhere. What upsets me is while I was proudly serving I was raped by some Marines while I was on duty. I went up the chain of command and nothing was done to these men. I was even told by a Navy chief if was my JOB to service the men and if I had a problem with it I must be a lesbian. I was engaged and was waiting for my time to come back to the states so we could get married. (by the way the trauma destroyed that relationship and I still have nightmares)
It happens everywhere and look around you, your mothers, sisters, daughter, wives, girlfriends, co-workers, and try to figure out which 1 of the 6 it was or will be.
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donald511 year, 5 months ago
Mom, thanks for your service and your real life example. You are a case in point why we should get civilian involvemnt in the UCMJ process when we can. Like the Abu Ghraib offenders, these trials can be held back in the US with civilian oversight (if we can trust our Justice department). See my earlier post on this subject.
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FCC436AMXS1 year, 5 months ago
I am female and I serve in the Air Force. Im a flying crew chief so there are plenty of times when I am on an aircraft with a crew of 7 men or more. Thankfully I have not had any sexual assaults, though I have been physically assaulted by a male aircrew member. His unit covered it up to save his *** and I was punished by my commander for simply defending myself. Senior NCO's who witnessed my attack failed to report the truth and lacked the integrity to do what was right. I couldnt even imagine how often sexual assaults go unpunished in the military. Its even more horrifying to know it goes on while on duty. Even though Im in a male dominated career field, I will not lose sight of goals or my mission, and I will proudly serve because that is what I volunteered to do. It takes a group of strong women to serve in the military and it saddens me to know that some of our fellow members would hurt us rather than protect us. Rape is rape, military, civilian... its flat out wrong...
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m-simon1 year, 5 months ago
Rape has declined by a factor of 3 in the last 30 years.
http://www.rainn.org/statistics/index.html?PHPSESS
If go back further the decline is even larger.
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Sandokan1 year, 5 months ago
Mom ...the military, being a former Officer and a combat veteran I know what I am saying, did you wrong. I don't know what the scenario was ... barracks rape? However, the service branches are all too well aware of accusations where the female was not clear with her message to the males she was around. In short, leading them on, the male fantasy of the woman wanting to be taken by them. It is wrong, I agree, but nontheless reality. I always think back to the days of the WAC in the Army, the WAVES by the Navy...and how simple things were back then.
In your case, the Chain-in-command clearly let you down. I would have wanted blood if I were your father, brother or fiance, and I would've gone to prison for acting on the "eye for an eye" priciple.
Truly sorry to hear about what happened to your life after the incident. Hopefully, things are better now...from your name I take it you have since married.
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evelyna1 year, 5 months ago
83 out of how many?
A lot of women are rapped and assaulted all over the world. Does this make it o.k for the military to engage in open season?
I think If I were a man in the military-I would be careful not to engage in this kind of pastime.
After all accidents happen on the battlefield. People also have to sleep. Maybe my gun would get clogged up when they need protection too.
That is crape. Anyone who allows this to go on should not be in charge of a unit.
You are making excuses for the sub-socialpaths.
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dwemm1 year, 5 months ago
I believe it's happening.
One of the really sad things, though is that the standard argument for not having women in the military has always been that the male soldiers will want to protect them so much that both the men and women will become ineffective in battle. With predators in the male ranks, it looks like that theory gets blown out of the water.
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ningyo1 year, 5 months ago
gee..so maybe its not a good idea to have women in the military??or at least in the same combat roles as men--just a thought..maybe the military isnt the place to play with social engineering..and if we do..maybe theres some rough sledding to start..people are still who they are..fatigues or not
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crespi1 year, 5 months ago
I'm just echoing Contrast's statement that 83 troops sexually assaulted out of 100,000 troops in a 6 month period would be normal...
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mom4rtroops1 year, 5 months ago
I don't think because of this women should not serve. I DO think don't let rapists get away with it. I went in the military because I had to pay for my own college education. When I was raped I was at the fuel farm fueling my fuel truck. I had just returned from fueling aircraft. Absolutely NOTHING was done to these marines. I was the one made out to be a trouble maker. I am the one who after 20 years still have nightmares. I am the one who suffers everyday as well as my family who has to deal with the sleepless nights, anger and mood swings. Cost of therapy out of my own pocket when it at times get's bad. Those marines get to live as if it was nothing but a joke.
Would I serve again. You bet. Only because 1 Marine stood by me and when I was on 24 hour duty with those same marines would not leave me alone with them. Even if he had to stay all night and still work all day and he always had his girlfriend with him so I would not feel terrified to go to work.
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